Yep, I told you so...

**R13** · December 21st, 2008, 12:03 AM

The most research I paid attention to, was the veterans. A recruiter or a website is just going to glorify whatever branch it is esp with the money.

**R13** · December 21st, 2008, 03:18 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got to be careful and not let the heart make decisions in matters of armed conflict. The vast majority were against fighting the British for independence, and a well organized anti war movement kept us out of WWII until it was almost too late. Imagine the disaster that could easily have been.

Most anti war people believe that their position is the honorable one, but throughout history it has led to more tyrants gaining power than war has. </div></div>

You made some great points Gotch. This tyrant has been gone for 4 years, cue #2 to start pulling out of there...didn't happen.

**Milk3** · December 21st, 2008, 07:17 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R13</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got to be careful and not let the heart make decisions in matters of armed conflict. The vast majority were against fighting the British for independence, and a well organized anti war movement kept us out of WWII until it was almost too late. Imagine the disaster that could easily have been.

Most anti war people believe that their position is the honorable one, but throughout history it has led to more tyrants gaining power than war has. </div></div>
So the day we got him we should start moving out and leave I

You made some great points Gotch. This tyrant has been gone for 4 years, cue #2 to start pulling out of there...didn't happen. </div></div>
So the day he died we should have left Iraq and left them with no gov. and no way to protect themselves ? That's the stupidest garbage I've read since your last post

**R13** · December 21st, 2008, 10:36 AM

I said began to withdraw at that time, if we had started then...we would have no wheres near the amount of soldiers we have today. That would have put more focus on Afghan and more troops sent there, possibly and most likely making more progress catching the guy(s) who actually attacked us.

**Gotch** · December 21st, 2008, 10:47 AM

Due to the unstable condition of both the Iraqi government and the region as a whole it was impossible to pull out quickly. In fact even many anti war people agree on that (saying we shouldn't have gone, but now we're stuck until things are stable - which they are becoming - relatively speaking).

**R13** · December 21st, 2008, 10:59 AM

And I agree, but you can pull them out slowly and should have been 4 years ago. Do not need nowheres near the amount we have there today - esp compared to Afghan. A lot of people forget that we have killed over 100,000 citizens and thats the main reason they are hate us. We come in and take down Saddam and are heroes, we continue to stay and tens of thousands more civilians have gotten killed.

**Gotch** · December 21st, 2008, 12:11 PM

They (the majority of Muslims) hated us before we came there, they hate us now, and they will hate us 100 years from now.

They will hate us and they will hate every Jew, every Hindu, and every Buddhist in the world. The majority may not act upon their hate, but they still hate *you*.

**simple man** · December 21st, 2008, 01:39 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They (the majority of Muslims) hated us before we came there, they hate us now, and they will hate us 100 years from now.

They will hate us and they will hate every Jew, every Hindu, and every Buddhist in the world. The majority may not act upon their hate, but they still hate *you*. </div></div>

And that is exactly why trying to stay long enough to stabilize the country is never going to work- they don't want to be friendly with the US. We will have to stay in Iraq forever, or let them run the country. I thought we learned some of this in Vietnam? You can't kill an idea. So either occupy the place or quit, the government the US leaves in place will never survive on it's own. The Russians went broke trying to defeat the Afgans before , why should we have to prove the point by going broke in Iraq? And we have a nice start, on the breaking the country thing, don't we?

**R13** · December 21st, 2008, 02:24 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They (the majority of Muslims) hated us before we came there, they hate us now, and they will hate us 100 years from now.

They will hate us and they will hate every Jew, every Hindu, and every Buddhist in the world. The majority may not act upon their hate, but they still hate *you*. </div></div>

The main reason they hate us, is when we go into other countries and try to run everything. There was definitely a resentment there, barging in and killing their sons, daughters, mothers, fathers etc. just really rubbed them the wrong way. I don't blame the world for their resentment towards us, we see our selves as "defenders of democracy" they see us as evil tyrants who kill their family and who can blame them.

**PVVikeFan** · December 21st, 2008, 03:03 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They (the majority of Muslims) hated us before we came there, they hate us now, and they will hate us 100 years from now.

They will hate us and they will hate every Jew, every Hindu, and every Buddhist in the world. The majority may not act upon their hate, but they still hate *you*. </div></div>

Does this mean that B. HUSSEIN hates us too?? [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img]